So, This weekend, someone's blog that I follow, Miss India Summer, posted another thought provoking message, that caused me to think. If you are interested, that blog post is located here (and will hopefully open in a new window when you click the link!)
In it, she quotes the Marquis de Sade, who is speaking about the apparent confusion that people have with Love and Pleasure.
Now, I read stuff by him many years ago, until I got "caught" by my parents, and my father told me that I should not read it because he was a pervert (or was it a provocateur?). Being 16, and living in his house, I got rid of the book.
As I read, and then re-read India's post over the weekend, I "got" what she was talking about which is the complete separation of Love and Pleasure. Where I get confused in this happens because of my personal morality meter, that was shaped by various things, i.e. Dad's Number One Rule, (Don't do anything that will dishonor the family name), and the various conservative, religion based rules.
I have always been intrigued by folks that were able to separate those things, in fact I even blogged about being a bug on the wall when a married couple had the conversation that went "I Love you, and while I want to spend the rest of my life with you, sexually, you are not enough, and I would like to change our relationship to an Open Marriage, and we become swingers."
I used to work the sound room at church. For fifteen years, I was there nearly every time the door opened for whatever might be going on, be it the normal services, concerts, plays or whatever. In all that time, I probably worked several hundred weddings. I got really good at the "standard" service, and knew all the things that the pastors were going to say and whatever, and I remember this line, that both the groom and the bride say as part of their vows:
"and forsaking all others....."
So where in the Marquis' conversation, and really for all those that have Open Marriages, are swingers, etc, does the "forsaking all others" come in.
If we take what he says at face value, it fits in the area of Love, where he admits that there is rarely pleasure in love, leaving Pleasure as the thing that you experience independently from Love.
I think there can be pleasure in love, but, if you think of love as a relationship, you have to remember that there is a lot of work, and a lot of ups and a lot of downs.
Pleasure on the other hand, is fleeting. It happens, you revel in it , you roll around in it, you let it wash over you, and consume you, and then, it is done. Then you are free to start that process all over again. I refer myself back to the conversation with Prinzzess, where I commented about the scenes between India, and herself as really showing passion, and feelings. She responded that there was great chemistry there, and that love takes time to develop. (I still wonder, if it is the chemistry, that develops into love, but, have decided that I am not smart enough to figure this out.) Prinzzess told me that the chemistry had gotten to the point that they were spending time together.
So, back to the love, and the relationship that goes with that. I believe that you have to be in some form of "love" to be in a relationship. That may be a hold over of previous indoctrination, but, I do not know.
I have read in a previous blog post by India that she is married, and has been for more than 12 years now. She is married, by her own words, because that is the "rules" that society has put on two people being together (need to find that blog post, and link it here), but before they married, they bonded to each other, mentally, physically, and emotionally. I personally think that the emotional bonding is key. People that don't bond that way, don't last, because, to use an old phrase, if your heart isn't in it, you are not in it.
That is why divorce hurts so bad, a little piece of you, that you willing gave up to another, dies.
However, I know that India has sexual partners outside of the marriage. Does it diminish what she has with her husband, I get the impression that they are very compatible, and have an active sex life.
I wonder how I would handle it if my wife said to me that she wanted to have partners outside of the marriage. I remember that I considered this question with a previous wife, who before marrying me had a very active sex life throughout her entire life, and I remember that for a while I was concerned that I would not be enough for her, and even for a while, gave her "permission" to do what she will. As far as I know, she never took me up on it, and I remember a while later, I told her that I was no longer comfortable with that permission. Again, as far as I know, she never took me up on it, but, honestly, at that point, it was "Don't ask, Don't tell".
But, to use India as an example. While I do not see her actually doing this, it is conceivable that if we were to meet in person, she might decide that it would be fun to have sex with me, and doing that does nothing to affect her relationship with her beloved (love that word!).
I wonder how that works in the "love/relationship" that she has with her beloved. Does she tell him before she does it, or, is it an "oh by the way today, I met "bob", and we spent a couple of hours getting sweaty in his loft". I would think that some kind of communication would have to occur. Then, is there ever a time where he says, "I'm not sure I comfortable with you seeing "Bob" anymore"?
I know from following other swinger couples that some revel in the fact that they spouse is "getting sweaty", and I infer from the blogs, and twitter posts that it doesn't do anything to their relationship.
Khristy Creams, who I follow on Twitter is always admonishing me that my ideas are holding me back from discovering true pleasure, and she is right. I would love to be in something causal with someone, but, I also would love to be in something serious, where I would, most mornings, wake up to someone that I knew had my back, that was my biggest advocate, and loved me with their whole being.
Can I adjust my paradigm to enable that? I don't know.
Shoot, I still cannot speak to a female in person. I just lock up. I see someone that I want to meet, and I think the words in my head "Hi, my name is Lee." then nothing. Those words are held back. Perhaps, because that last breakup/divorce wounded me so deeply that I cannot cross that river, and get back to "living" those dreams.
When I traveled to Carenco to meet Prinzzess back in December, it was very hard to speak to her, even though she sat next to me the entire night that she was not dancing. (yes, there is a blog post, look for the "Daring Myself" post). I am fairly sure that, while I know that Prinzzess likes guys, and has sex with them, there was no chance that I was going to make that list. Although, I considered on the ride to see her, what I would do if she went down that path.
(Just to put it out there, I did ask if perhaps that "could" be on the table, and received a very quick, shake of the head.)
So, can you be in Love, turn that into a relationship, and still participating in activities that are pleasurable, (doesn't have to be only sex, by the way!), but not with your beloved. Lots do. But, I think that it is still not the norm.
As I am sitting here thinking about it, I wonder what I would say if my beloved came to be and said, you know, today I met Bob, and we rolled around the bed for 3 hours, and he totally rocked my world, my thought might be, can I live up to that? Perhaps that is where my viewpoint is skewed, I wouldn't try to live up to Bob, and what he brought to the "table", but, knowing that my beloved was right there by my side, and loving me, despite my faults and frailties, I would hold her tight, and smile.
So, more strange thoughts for a new week.
Namaste, My Friends.
See You On The Other Side.